Marrying a Russian guy. Part 2: "Asking a girl's hand"

My American daughter has fallen in love with a Russian man in the States, actually to be specific he's Ukraine. Is it customary for him to ask her father and I for her hand in marriage?
Also my daughter says his family won't be at the wedding because they are not allowed to leave the Ukraine? Does that seem normal?
Asked by Elissa, USA
I am happy to learn that Russian (ex-USSR) traditions regarding proposing are of interest for people in other countries. That means that our boys do marry foreign girls !

However, few of Russian (by that I mean ex-USSR populations) know the origin of this ritual.

SANS LIEU SANS TEMPS
Many believe that "asking a hand" tradition came from Western Europe, where several centuries ago was established a custom of offering future bride when proposing to her one glove.

Hence the expression "ask a hand" became widely used throughout the world. Of course, that means not only proposal to create a family, but also the promise to love, care and support.
In the ideal world, making such offer man promises to love his woman forever, to share her joy and sorrow & to be faithful.

Sweet and necessary precision..... he guarantees her permanent attention, care and understanding in any situation. (It is international, isn't it? ))))

And of cause it always meant that a man who decided to start a family must have not only material and moral independence but most importantly - the confidence in his feelings and intentions towards his future wife.
....And of course, he must prove to his future bride and to the people who raised her that he is sure of his feelings. Marriage (regardless of the country, time or language) has always been and is considered as one of the most serious steps in the human's existence.
Modern times, trends or traditions may insist that this is not important, but deep inside every parent would want to see the future life-time-partner (isn't it what marriage is about) to show respect towards the people who invested their lives in their daughter (wouldn't it be finally flattering for a parent to see that his opinion really counts)))).



BUT one of the advantages of being a woman today is to have a choice (unlike many of our ancestors) to accept the offer, to refuse it or to postpone her decision taking time to weigh all pros and cons.

STILL (just like our ancestors) man can expect at least some kind of response. He, in turn, as a true gentleman should be ready to accept his own defeat if he gets rejected.



RUSSIAN HISTORICAL FLASHBACK

Having said all of above I shall mention that Russians do have certain specific traditions in such ritual of "the proposal".

Until The October revolution of 1917 it was always a parent's choice when it came to choosing a husband or a wife. So in such delicate matter they often needed to be assisted in making the right choice.
Thus the job of a matchmaker was created, leaving to this person and the future parents-in-law from both sides these unromantic practical calculations and negotiations, which often made their children's tastes secondary.
That tradition left to a girl passive role and only a matchmaker was her confident...however those matchmaker- ladies (often in the mature age) also managed to take advantage of the market ...and get potential grooms to fall for a matchmaker)))) (oh, this timeless competition between the youth and the experience!)



Later on when the Soviets came to power many old tradition have been changed.

One of which was the disappearance of the engagement ritual; wedding rings, matchmaking job was considered as of a  criminal character ("hooker"?) and the people were given a freedom to choose their partners themselves. (The success of each choice can be argued, but every newlywed hoped to go through this casting only once in the lifetime).

Nevertheless, the mentality never change and the propaganda insisted that the IDEAL SOVIET CITIZENs were supposed to treat their parents with the respect. So, like in the old times, the men were supposed to ask permission of the future in-laws "to create a family with their daughter".

THAT HAS NOT CHANGED EVEN NOW. So such act will be considered as appropriate ))))

P.S.
To answer your second question...I do not know the background of the family of the boy. But even not mentioning financial aspects of the trip to the USA and knowing that the majority of ex-USSR citizens will need an entry visa to come to the US, I would refer this part of the question to the USA visa authorities .

Marrying a Russian guy

I'm always curious about gender roles and expectations of other cultures and I was just wondering about Russian men. I hear so much about Russian women marrying and looking for foreign husbands and I always hear about Russian men marrying only Russian women.

Even the ones I know here in the U.S. have married Russian women. Do the men date or marry foreign women ever? If not do you know if there is a cultural significance to this?
Asked by Siobhan

Hey Siobhan,

I do not know what man you are keeping in mind asking this tricky question. I am not good at personal dating advice.

So consequently I am afraid my answer will not be very personal or  original one..as it is not only the Russian men's "thing" to look for a Russian wife. As I mentioned in one of my previous posts many other men often also look for Russian spouses. (Shall l do my research and write on the qualities of Russian wives?)

Having said that I shall admit that many men of other nationalities who are living abroad, do stick to their traditions when looking for a spouse....Maybe they prefer to have at home a girl who will remind them of their mothers or sisters. Most likely she will cook them food they used to eat in their childhood (is it reassuring? ), will sing to their kids the songs they have heard as babies (romantic?). So that attachment to the origins has nothing to do with "the special Russian tradition" but more likely is typical for the first/second generation of emigrants living abroad.

But do not get discouraged. There are exceptions to all rules. Russian guys are not "the creatures unlike others" )))...in fact, they are not that different and also like different types of girls to the point of even marrying some of them.

FEW UNKNOWN STATISTICS:

1.Russian 36 years old billionaire ANDREI MELNICHENKO married Serbian beauty queen Sandra Nicolic offering her fairy tale style life in Russia.

2. Famous Russian actor Igor Kostolevsky (Russian Bret Pitt) who played in 1975 the XIX century Russian noble officer who felt in love with a French seamstress (their real love story was immortalised in 1840 by the novel of Alexander Duma THE FRENCH MASTER)...ended up marrying his French woman 20 years later.




3. Russian NHL player Valery Bure is happily married to American actress Candace Cameron . Now they raise their three children.

4. Soviet poet Yevgeny Yevtushenko (honored by the US president Nixon ) has been married many times,  two of which to the foreigners: British Joan Butler and American Marina Novika .

5. And the most recent one ........even though it is not a marriage, but a head spinning love of a renown model Naomi Campbell and less known Russian real estate billionaire Vladislav Doronin.

Apparently she is willing to convert to the Russian Orthodox church to be able to marry him in his faith. 
CUTE! We'll see how this fairy tale ends )))

P.S. BONUS

When you are finally with your Russian man, apart from the natural cultural differences, please be ready to deal  with the feeling that "everything is MEGA REAL"...to the point of "even too much" ))) (like his favorite Russian language song in the rewind mode in the car)

Love, emotions, presents, flowers will be overflowing as well as sometimes silence, mystery or reluctance to "talk it over", etc... One thing is garanteed, you rarely will be bored.

Herbarium - Russian tradition?

I was told that it's a Russian tradition to keep a flower in your book, just to have it with you. What is that called in English and Russian?
Asked by Stanley

Well, for the first time I have to admit that this statement is wrong. Tradition is not Russian, but European.

Keeping dried flowers in the books is called Herbarium (Latin herbárium, from herba - "grass") - a collection of dried plants kept according to certain rules. Typically, the plants for herbarium after drying are put on sheets of paper.

The first herbarium appeared in Italy in the XVI century. Their invention is related to the invention of paper is attributed to the doctor and botanist Luca Ghini, founder of Pisa Botanic Garden. Herbarium of the Ghini has been destroyed later, but the collection of his close friends is still kept in museum.

FROM THE PERSONAL EXPERIENCE

In the elementary school, we collected leaves, ironed them to make them dry and pasted into an album signing the name of the tree.This ritual is known to all people who went to the schools in ex-USSR. After the first year experience collecting just leaves, next season we would have dug the plant by the roots, dried, pasted on sheets of cardboard and then added a list of type description...and couple months later this whole album would finish in the garbage )))))))

LOVE

I don't know who told you that it's a Russian tradition. But most probably it was a girl.)))))))) Well, she probably was also very romantic, wasn't she? )))))))))))

I have to say that keeping a flower (especially which was given to you by a person you've loved) in the book is so old-fashioned. Russian famous poet of XIX century Mr.Alexander Pushkin has devoted several poems to this tradition.

Classics.....and out of fashion!

We all know that teenage loves rarely last and make fun of Pushkin love poems. ..........But frankly wouldn't you feel a little pinch in the heart if opening the book you find a dry flower - witness of a forbidden kiss, for example?? ))))))))

"Marry a Russian girl "

In year 2008, a book fair was held at New Delhi where there was a special stall for Russian books. There I met with a Russian craftsmen. We talked for sometime and I asked him about literature of Fyodor Dostyovasky and Leo Tolstoy.
Apart from there names, he didn't know much. He introduced me to his family, he gave me his phone no and address in Kazan.
At the time of departure he advised me to "visit Russia and marry a Russian girl?". Listening the word "marriage" I became suspicious and left from there.

But this incident keeps on rolling in my mind to this day. Can you tell or interpret what possibly might have been the intent of that person.

Asked by Sanju, India


Dear Sanju,

Of cause I cant get into the mind of another man but somehow, judging from the your letter, I would not worry about the mean intentions of this craftsmen, who (I bet) is happy in his marriage ))))) I am sure he meant well proposing you to visit Russia and marry a Russian girl.


I am afraid it will be unfair to the great girls of other nations and will sound like pure marriage agency advertisement, if I list here all qualities of Russian wives ))))... The prove is that there are many of them happily married to Indian men.

I can only advise you ....listen to your heart when it comes to choosing your future wife ))

P.S. Maybe you should just go to visit Russia...and not thinking about meeting a girl but just to see a land of Dostoyevsky and Tolstoy. )) Think about it!

Arrivial of a newborn in Russia

I'd like to know ...who cares for mother and baby the first days after birth. Is it the family, like grandmother and aunts, or a nurse?
Is there any difference between giving birth in a city or at the countryside?
And what's the role of the father? I found a site which said that fathers after the birth of their child the whole night go boozing with friends, but I thought that rather unlikely.

Next, is there some party for the family, friends, and neighbors or can they visit whenever they?
Are there special gifts you give the mother and child?
And is it still a custom to wrap the baby?

Asked by Maud, Holland
This is a big subject, but I'll try to summarize everything in several short paragraphs.

ALWAYS


Indeed, the world surrounding the birth of a new person rests in Russia purely the women's world. I will disappoint you to say that not that Russian men don't love their newborn children.... it is just rather cultural to leave the pregnancy and everything concerning this mysterious process to the women.

Social studies prove that majority of Russian women won't expect the father of their baby to accompany her through the pregnancy to doctors or even to be present at the labor room.

You will be surprised, but chastity and timidity would be the right words to describe the feelings of both sides.
Majority of women would have their babies in the official medical establishments where they will stay from 5-7 days after giving a birth (this, by the way, allows woman to rest) and just few would prefer to have a labor at home under the supervision of a midwife. Rural areas won't be much different from the towns.
The level of comfort could vary .....but this will be true for any other country.)))))


One important issue would be the restriction on the visits in the neonatal section of the hospital. In many places, even fathers are not welcomed. Hygiene standards don't allow any foreign infection in the hospital. So grandparents, friends, and relatives will have to wait until the newborn is allowed to go home with his mom. ...And that is why in every family you will have a picture of them on the stairs of the hospital accompanied by a woman wearing white robe holding wrapped pink of blue blanket ))))
Thus, the midwife presents a new member to the family!
...And yes, we do wrap our babies for the first several months of life ))))
TRADITIONS & SUPERSTITIONS

The modern life and technology definitely entered life of Russians, but there are some traditions and superstitions which survived all: Tsar, Soviet, and any modern times influence )))

1. During the pregnancy, a woman should not eat in secret (hiding). If she does so: her child could be born fearful.

Modern EXPLANATION: Such desire can appear either in case of food deficiency (which in our time is, fortunately, rare), or in case of eating “forbidden fruits”, for example chocolate or oranges, which can be considered as allergic for the baby. .... (Still not clear how could it make the kid fearful)))

2. Never mention that you are pregnant, except to a father of a child and a doctor! Until stomach becomes noticeable, a woman should not mention to anyone her pregnancy. ...Grandparents, friends included.
Modern EXPLANATION: This very ancient popular belief. Once there was an entire “system” of rites, which helped a woman to conceal the pregnancy from the evil spirits, which aimed to harm an unborn baby. Women wore husband's shirts, worked as much as others to hide her pregnancy especially from those, among whom could hide anyone with a "bad eye".

Nowadays contemporary psychologists recommend following this advice in certain cases (especially when there is a threat of the miscarriage). The reason for this is not in “being jinxed” but a probable natural miscarriage during the first term. If this misfortune happens, the possible questions on the state of mother's health can traumatize woman even more than the event itself.
3. The name of a future child must be held in secret. A name of an unborn baby can be considered but shall be held in strict secrecy as the evil spirits can try to harm an unborn baby.

4. Pregnant mother shall not touch domestic animals. A pregnant woman must not play with the cat, even take it into the hands, in the child will otherwise be many enemies.
Modern EXPLANATION: The discovery in XX century of toxoplasmosis, a very dangerous disease for future moms, which is actually transferred by cats, cleared this superstition.

5. No clothes or toys or anything shall be bought or kept in the house where the pregnant woman lives. If grandparents or father buy anything they shall never show it to a future mom. Everyone pretends that there is no change coming in the family's life. Father will have time to get it all once a baby is born. That is what he is doing together with all aunts and grandparents when mother and a baby rest after the labor.
6. A woman shall not cut her hair during the pregnancy. (I couldn't get a decent explanation why).

7. No stranger eyes should look at the baby until the child is the 1-2 month old.

There are no traditions of any baby shower in Russia. Presents are just given to the parents at the occasions.
Usually, the first party would be organized for the christening (if the parents plan to baptize a baby) or for any other close holiday (New Year/birthday of a member of a family). But more often you will not be invited to the house. Once again - "no infection in the house" is needed.

P.S. Hope, it covers more or less all of your questions. As for the father's drinking all night long after the day when his son was born. You know, I am sure this is not only Russian tradition...but who would blame the happy dad? ))